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Spaceempires.net :: Mines and Satellites :: View topic
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Mines and Satellites

 
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Black_Knyght
Space Emperor


Joined: Aug 19, 2005
Location: Dark side of the Moon

PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 5:53 pm    Post subject: Mines and Satellites Reply with quote

I've had some recent discussions concerning mines and satellites, and I thought I'd get some informed player input on some ideas I have for updating them in the Fusion Mod.

Firstly, concerning mines - More than one player has said having three sizes of mines is pointless. Apparently several players prefer larger numbers of small mines over more powerful large mines. Researching mines seems to be more a matter of getting better layers and sweepers than actually getting larger mines.

That said - would it seem reasonable to just have one size of mine, rather than bothering with three different sizes?

Secondly, concerning satellites - Again more than one player has said satellites are not much use for anything other than sensors. To quote one player, they're a "glass shield" that usually gets off one shot before being swept away like so much scrap.

That said - I'm looking for thoughts and ideas on making satellites much more useful and much tougher. More of a riot shield than a glass shield, so to speak. I'd like to make satellites a viable and worthwhile defense system and not just a momentary speed bump in a planetary assault.

So, any thoughts or suggestions here?


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ekolis
Virtual Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Cincinnati, OH, USA

PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that differently sized mines are rather pointless; though if you make them harder to sweep, it might make a difference.

Satellites for planetary defense? I always used them to defend warp points, not planets. They're pretty effective at that, in my experience. You can stack a RIDICULOUS number of them, and since they mount full sized weapons... Shocked

But if you do want to make satellites stronger in terms of defense, maybe you could give them special mounts that increase the strength of their shields and armor?


That's no space station - it's a spreadsheet!


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Skyburn
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 12, 2008

PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unless larger mines are cheaper to build than smaller ones, or the number of mines per sector is set very low, then I tend to agree that larger mines aren't too useful.

I think the best way to make satellites more useful is to give them equivalent firepower to a ship at a fraction of the build cost. However, because of SE4 bugs satellites won't be as useful as they could be. They don't swarm and planets with them in cargo won't launch them in combat.

Can you give satellites movement? Maybe that would help reduce overkill.


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Perimal
Space Emperor


Joined: Apr 13, 2011
Location: London

PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mines :

I'm definitely in the camp and prefer small mines as large mines are just as easy to sweep as small mines and cost a lot more. Having said that after the mid game mines are pretty limited anyway.

Satellites :
These are very good in the early game for defending warp points and planets. Later on a unit of 100 satellites with Missile V & PD is a tough nut to crack for a small to medium fleet. What's more they cost NO maintenance so you can build them when you are short of money. The biggest weakness is that they cannot be upgraded by the AI so you need to be picky about what direct fire weapons you mount - I think putting PPB on them rather than DUC would be one way to go.


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Black_Knyght
Space Emperor


Joined: Aug 19, 2005
Location: Dark side of the Moon

PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 6:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skyburn wrote:
Can you give satellites movement? Maybe that would help reduce overkill.



You can indeed, and in the Fusion Mod both Satellites AND Bases have (extremely) limited movement.

I really like the idea of making satellites more useful by giving them equivalent firepower to a ship at a fraction of the build cost. Combined with (possibly increased) limited combat movement, that might help overcome some of the inherent "bugs" with them in SEIV


As for Mines, the general consensus both here and elsewhere seems to be that large and medium mines are pretty much useless, with a preference towards small mines.

I think I may update Mines as just having a single size, and possibly increase the options available to Satellites to improve their usefulness.


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Artaud
Space Emperor


Joined: Sep 23, 2006
Location: Cleveland, Ohio

PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that having three sizes of mines is pointless. I, too, find small mines to be useful in the early game, but easily swept aside by the AI later in the game.

I find satellites to be extremely useful to defend warp points at all stages of the game.

I also use them a lot for remote mining and system surveillance.


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marhawkman
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 24, 2008

PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the Warp 10 mod I did for SE5, I added a racial trait that gives improved mines. The improved mines are smaller than stock mines. I even added a mine that was either 1 or 2 kt. :p no I did not make warheads that small, but I did make a weapon mount that works on mine warheads. Obviously the main function of the mount is to make the warhead tiny. So instead of a 200kt cargo bay holding 20 mines it can hold 100 or more.

When I play using stock mines I'll typically take a 10kt mine and only put one 5kt warhead in it.


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Artaud
Space Emperor


Joined: Sep 23, 2006
Location: Cleveland, Ohio

PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it possible to make a very small mine that only damages an enemy ship?

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ekolis
Virtual Guru


Joined: Aug 04, 2003
Location: Cincinnati, OH, USA

PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What do you mean? A mine that doesn't do enough damage to destroy a ship? Or a mine that can only hit ships, and not, say, fighters?

That's no space station - it's a spreadsheet!


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Skyburn
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 12, 2008

PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2015 1:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think a minefield applies all damage to one ship(or unit/unit group) at a time until it runs out of mines or the ship is destroyed.

I don't recall if special damage types cause mines to react differently. I want to say no, but I may be thinking of SE3. If special damage types work you could make a mine that only damages certain components with a bit of modding.


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marhawkman
Space Emperor


Joined: Mar 24, 2008

PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2015 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I know SE5 can do that, not sure about 4.

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Perimal
Space Emperor


Joined: Apr 13, 2011
Location: London

PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skyburn wrote:
I think a minefield applies all damage to one ship(or unit/unit group) at a time until it runs out of mines or the ship is destroyed.

I don't recall if special damage types cause mines to react differently. I want to say no, but I may be thinking of SE3. If special damage types work you could make a mine that only damages certain components with a bit of modding.


It's a relatively trivial exercise to mod a special mine to have the ability Only Engines, Only Weapons, Only Shield Generators, Only Boarding Parties, Only Security Stations, Only Master Computers, etc. Quite how useful some of these would be is another matter.


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